A few days ago, Chris Eberle asked:
. . . Even if we assume, as is surely not the case, that there was some one position, even broadly construed, that the founders took with respect to the proper public role of religion, of what normative significance is that fact? After all, suppose that we agree that, as Prof. Stone says, "the Founders were not anti-religion. They understood that religion could help nurture the public morality necessary to a self-governing society. But they also understood that religion was fundamentally a private and personal matter that had no place in the political life of a nation dedicated to the separation of church and state." Why should that matter to me any more than their belief in Newtonian physics? . . .
In response, Steve Smith writes:
(1) One standard response, more or less Burkean, emphasizes the superiority of collective, accumulated wisdom over that of any single person or generation. This claim is debatable, of course, and it may not apply to the kind of argument that focuses not so much on an ongoing tradition as on the particular thinking of the founding generation. In this respect, Chris says his perplexity may reflect his Protestant skepticism of tradition. Maybe. But insofar as the sort of talk he is uncertain about isn't about "tradition" so much as about "the Founders" (and especially, of course, if the Founders are being cited in figuring out the meaning of the Constitution, as is often true), this sort of argument isn't really about tradition. It might be closer to a "sola scriptura" type of thinking that Protestants presumably would be comfortable with.
2. Or we might just think that the Founders, or their generation, happened to be unusually wise or prescient, so it would be prudent to give weight to their judgments. Reasons might be offered for thinking this. A variation is that their generation was part of, or at least closer to, a worldview that understood truths that a modern worldview has trouble grasping. So we might be interested in what they thought because for us this might be a sort of window into a world that we no longer have good access to.
3. Actually, though, I suspect that perhaps the major reason why we care so much about what the Founders thought is because they were in an important sense constitutive of the identity of our political community. On a personal level, any sane normative reflection will take into account the kind of person I am, or you are. "What should I do?" or "How should I live?" can't be sensibly addressed without some understanding of "Who or what sort of person am I?" The same seems true for a community. But what gives a community its character or identity? It's a large question, but surely a major part of the answer has to refer to the traditions of the community, and in particular to its origins or founding. I think we all basically understand this when we give normative weight to what the Founders thought.
Thoughts?
This past weekend, I was a panelist -- along with Judge McConnell, Prof. Chris Eisgruber, and Holly Hollman of the Baptist Joint Committee -- on an episode of "Dan Rather Reports." The show (filmed in a Hogwarts-y room on Princeton's campus) was called "Separation Anxiety: Church and State." If you are interested, here's the link.
Wednesday, December 12, 2007
. . . why do we lawyers think it matters what the Founders thought about religion, politics, and public life? He writes, with respect to our discussion of Geof Stone's recent post on Gov. Romney's speech:
I don't get it: I hear that kind of debate all of the time -- "this is what 'the founders' believed about religion and public life.' "No, *this* is what they believed." Etc Etc. But who cares? Even if we assume, as is surely not the case, that there was some one position, even broadly construed, that the founders took with respect to the proper public role of religion, of what normative significance is that fact? After all, suppose that we agree that, as Prof. Stone says, "the Founders were not anti-religion. They understood that religion could help nurture the public morality necessary to a self-governing society. But they also understood that religion was fundamentally a private and personal matter that had no place in the political life of a nation dedicated to the separation of church and state." Why should that matter to me any more than their belief in Newtonian physics?
Actually, what I'm really wondering -- and I do wonder, because I think it's perhaps my Protestant individualism and latent hostility to tradition that's blinding me here -- is why two folks from MOJ should think his argument worth responding to. Is this some kind of Kabuki dance in which lawyers like to participate? Why waste the effort, other than to say: "Yes, perhaps the founders really did think what you say they thought. And now that we've mentioned that entirely irrelevant factoid, what should we, now, think about the proper role of religion in the United States?"
Well? Why do we "waste the effort"?
At Commonweal, Grant Gallicho has a post -- check it out -- that is critical of my part of the recent back-and-forth with Eduardo on climate change, etc. He writes (among other things):
Eduardo was endorsing the fairly recent phenomenon of Vatican officials–like the pope–increasingly mentioning environmental issues such as stewardship of the earth. Is Rick arguing that the curia should pipe down? Or should they simply avoid getting their hands dirty with troublesome “specific policy proposals”?
Wouldn’t it be great if the “shift” for which Eduardo hopes was, in an integrated and thorough way, distinctively Catholic, and involved talking about stewardship, solidarity, sustainable development, *and* the importance of valuing the truly human over chemically facilitated individualism? Surely the Church has more to add than “me, too!”
Sure it would, and no one suggested otherwise. But hooking the climate-change conversation to the contraception cart isn’t the only way to do it–or even a very good one.
I posted this comment:
For what it’s worth, the view of mine that (I think) runs through the back-and-forth between Eduardo and me is not that the “curia should pipe down” about important questions of environmental stewardship, resource use, development, etc. It is that, in speaking to these important questions, the Church (and Catholics in general) should be careful not to suggest, or to appear to suggest, that the costs and benefits of policies put forward as responses to, or prevention of, climate change are not crucially relevant to the task of deciding what should, may, or must be done. I do not think anything I wrote would justify the conclusion that I “doubt[]” that “pollution [is] bad, and not just for the environment.”
I do not think it is true that one cannot have “something worthwhile to say” if one “disagree[s] the church’s teaching against contraception.” Of course one can. I probably should have been more clear about this, or expressed myself better, but I was trying to suggest — and I think my correspondent was trying to suggest — that, wholly and apart from the “should the Church be more involved in speaking about environmental issues” question, that perhaps a *truly* “Green” worldview would be one that takes on board the moral critique of contemporary thinking about sex, fertility, reproduction, etc.