Speaking of "Morning’s Minion" at the Reasons and Opinions blog, he has followed the Sisk/Berg debate here about France and fills in statistics on some of the points we made. Many of his numbers support my claim that while France has significant problems, we shouldn't join Greg in simply dismissing it as a "social disaster," and in some areas, especially health care and child welfare, ways its social-democratic approach produces better results than our approach. On the other hand, Morning’s Minion notes that job protections for French workers come at the expense of the young, especially Muslims, who have high unemployment rates, which is obviously a sizzling kettle that has already boiled over a few times. These judgments seem quite reasonable. My point was never that France doesn't have significant problems – only that it shouldn't be dismissed as a "social disaster," especially when we have some pretty large bits of wood in our own eyes (in addition to the other points, think of how many of our young minority men are in prison, often for minor drug offenses, and not just unemployed). I thought I caught more than a whiff in Greg’s original post of simple contempt for the French, especially (as I noted) in his casual assertion that despite electing a president who promised economic liberalization, the French will never make adjustments (because, after all, they’re the French). There’s been plenty of demonization of France in the air recently, and it’s no better than the demonization of America by French and other European pundits (cataloged, e.g., in this book). But I accept Greg’s assurance to me that this was not his goal, and that he chose to write about France because of the recent election.
Greg's latest post connects reliance on government to the loss of faith in France. He doesn't explain the mechanism, but I'll grant the point: reliance on government services can reduce people's reliance on church-related schools or social services, and thus can (primarily in the former case) undercut the transmission and reproduction of the faith. That’s why I believe that religious schools and social services should be able to participate in government benefits programs, and why I’d like to see government ensure a level of assistance through taxes but rely on a variety of providers to deliver the services. Unfortunately for Greg's simple argument, though, the French, like Europeans in general, give much more state assistance to religious K-12 schools than we do, and their social-democratic attitudes have a lot to do with that: they believe that positive government action can promote freedom, in this case freedom among educational options. By contrast, our more negative attitude to taxing and spending explains in part why opposition to state aid to religious schools has been so strong in America: more of us think that state aid must be an imposition on taxpayers rather than a facilitation of families’ freedom. (The French state aid, however, does have the problem of coming with lots of strings that have harmed the distinctiveness and autonomy of French Catholic schools.)
Finally, although I agree that growth of government can reduce religious vigor, it seems to me we have to recognize that the loss of Christian faith in France, and Europe generally, has had a lot of other causes. One was that for many decades before and after the French Revolution, the Church became historically associated with only one part of society (most the aristocracy and rural citizens) and one part of the political spectrum. De Tocqueville had France especially in mind when he commended American Christianity for not getting too tied to one political party and thus losing the ability to reach half the population. A second major factor was that the terrible destruction of lives and land from two world wars – effects of a kind and size that we never suffered here – made doubt in a providential God much more severe and widespread among Europeans. Cf. Reinhold Niebuhr’s description in The Irony of American History of how Americans’ material good fortune – rich lands, the protection of two oceans – made it easier for us to believe in a providential God. It seems to me that the loss of religious faith is in significant part separate from reliance on government, or a cause of that reliance, and only in part a result of it.
Monday, May 14, 2007
From the anti-illegal-immigration commentator at CNN:
The separation of church and state in this country is narrowing. And it is the church, not the state that is encroaching. Our Constitution protects religion from the intrusion or coercion of the state. But we have precious little protection against the political adventurism of all manner of churches and religious organizations.
The leadership of the Catholic Church and many Protestant churches, as well as Jewish and even Muslim religious organizations, are driving that political adventurism as those leaders conflate religion and politics. And while there is a narrowing of the separation between church and state, there is a widening schism between the leadership of churches and religious organizations and their followers and members. . . .
This week the head of the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Cardinal Roger Mahoney, basically threatened his faithful with denial of heaven if they don't support amnesty for illegal aliens. The good Cardinal said: "Anything that tears down one group of people or one person, anything that is a negative in our community, disqualifies us from being part of the eternal city."
The nation's religious leaders seem hell-bent on ignoring the separation of church and state when it comes to the politically charged issue of illegal immigration. A new coalition called Christians for Comprehensive Immigration Reform Wednesday will begin lobbying lawmakers with a new advertising and direct mail campaign on behalf of amnesty for illegal aliens.
Dobbs thus joins the long line of political debaters -- abortion-rights advocates, gay-rights advocates, segregationists during the 1960s -- who have tried to disqualify their opponents' religiously grounded values by invoking the separation of church and state.
Perhaps anticipating the familiar (unanswerable) argument that people's religious values can and do play a role in democratic political debate, Dobbs shifts to theology, quoting Romans 13 on the duty to submit to the governing authorities, who are ordained by God. This would make a prima facie theological case against Christians who join the illegal-alien-sanctuary movement or otherwise break or help break the immigration laws (although one would still have to deal with the claims for civil disobedience against fundamentally unjust laws). But it's not much of a case, is it, against those who petition the governing authorities to enact a law granting amnesty? That's working with the system, not rebelling against it. True, amnesty would be a law granting forgiveness from previous law violations (under certain conditions), but if the governing authorities could never take any such action we wouldn't have bankruptcy laws, truth and reconciliation commissions, executive pardons, and probably several other features of legal systems that don't come to my mind offhand. The advisability of granting amnesty in the context of immigration reform is a legitimate matter for debate, as is the question whether bishops and other clergy have accurately interpreted their traditions in pushing for it as a legislative priority. But Romans 13 and the separation of church and state are both beside the point.
Tom
Saturday, May 12, 2007
I noted that in Richard's cogently-put argument for a Catholic school refusing to have as commencement speaker a noted figure who is pro-abortion-rights, the only alternative Richard suggested to recognize such a person's contributions to the pursuit of truth was to pit them in a debate against someone else (Cuomo vs. Hyde, Singer vs. George, Sobrino vs. Pope). If this is the only alternative, schools would forego every such speaker who was unwilling or too costly to go into a debate format (a significant restriction, even if one argues it's worth bearing). RIchard also puts these people into debates over the very issue at which they're at odds with the official Church teachings (Singer on infanticide, Sobrino on liberation theology). He doesn't mention a situation like a conference keynote address or a stand-alone lecture on a non-abortion topic where the speaker is in sync with (even quite admirable to) the Church, and is not a general honoree (although the featuring itself involves a kind of honoring). E.g., Al Gore keynoting a conference or lecturing separately on global warming (see Zenit, May 12, 2007, for the Vatican's view on the moral seriousness of this problem, and stipulate for argument's sake that Gore's position on it is generally quite admirable). RIchard's not mentioning this situation as an alternative makes me wonder if he or others see it as no different than the commencement speaker or award recipient.
A related question, as 2008 approaches, is whether there is an objection to inviting a pro-abortion-rights officeholder or candidate in the relevant jurisdiction in his/her status as the officeholder/candidate (given appropriately equal visits by other candidates), not as an honoree.
I raise these questions because we've had discussions of them at St. Thomas.
Tom
Friday, May 11, 2007
My colleague Greg makes some good points about the economic and social problems of France and the unsustainability of a number of its current practices. But for me at least, the post loses a lot of credibility by painting things in such black and white terms, dismissing France overall as a "disaster" and suggesting that there is no middle point -- and no case for a middle point -- lying somewhere between where the U.S. and France are now, or learning something from each system.
(Let's set aside the loss of Christian faith, which we can all agree is very bad in spiritual terms.) The France that Greg condemns as a "social disaster" has the problems he identifies, but it also, as compared with the United States, has lower abortion rates, longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates, and lower homicide rates. The relation of a generous social-welfare system to such figures is not 1 to 1, but it is there. Whatever one says about the costs of the social-welfare system, the benefits that it provides for child-raising -- both for women at home and women in the busainess workplace -- have contributed to a fertility rate that is higher than virtually everywhere else in Europe (and very close to the U.S., bucking the general European trend of low fertility). A lot of what we save in social welfare spending is eaten up in our much more expensive health-care system. And while productivity per worker is less in France than in the US, productivity per hour worked is comparable or slightly higher, fitting with the idea that the French accept lower economic performance overall in return for simply working less and having more leisure and family time. Again, I'm not saying the French approach is right and the US wrong -- and it's likely that their current point on the trade-off curve is not sustainable -- but Greg's post seems not to recognize any conflict of values or considerations here whatsoever.
I think that among the insights Catholic social thought should give us, stemming from the recognition of original sin, is an acknowedgment of the imperfections of all social and economic systems and the inevitable trade-offs between them. I don't see that in Greg's post; for him, the problems are entirely on one side. And his curt dismissal of the idea that France might ever make reasonable adjustments in its system toward more productivity and risk -- as e.g. the US, Britain, and some of the Scandinavian countries have done over the years -- strikes me as simple France-bashing.
Finally, Greg's slippery-slope arguments against welfare policies might be valid, but they might not. The nature of slippery-slope arguments, of course, is that they use the prospect of bad results down the line to prevent you from doing something now that is justified taken alone. For example, one might say, paralleling Greg's logic, that we should never invade a nation (say, Afghanistan) to respond to an attack on us (like 9-11), because if we do we'll get too sanguine about the idea of war and start, to paraphrase Greg, "careening toward the [moral] and [geo-political] disaster that is [the Iraq War]." (Gee, maybe that's one instance where the French turned out to have gotten something right.)
Tom
Sunday, May 6, 2007
The Christian Legal Society's estimable Center for Law and Religious Freedom (for which Rick and I serve on an advisory board) has a new blog devoted mostly to religious freedom issues.
Tom